NATHAN JOE is a playwright and the Creative Director of Auckland Pride. He’s lived in the central city for over 10 years, and says it was taking up residence here that set him on his current career trajectory. Here, he talks about the central city as a site of reinvention, connection and inspiration.
JEREMY HANSEN Nathan, why did you move to Auckland in the first place?
NATHAN JOE I moved to Auckland from in Christchurch 2012 and lived with my aunt in Ellerslie before finding a place in the central city. I’d grown up and studied broadcasting in Christchurch, but I’d always wanted to move to Auckland because I just thought it’s where you went to be an artist or a filmmaker, which is what I originally wanted to be. That desire shifted to theatre once I lived in the city. I didn’t realise independent theatre existed – as far as I was concerned, theatre was musicals and big-scale shows.
Living in central Auckland meant going to fringe festivals and independent theatre productions in spaces that used to be basements. I got to discover how the central city houses a lot of experimenters and fringe artists, and I wanted to be part of that weird little ecosystem. I realised that there was nothing really stopping me from pursuing my interest in the arts. The central city just asked the question: do you want to be part of this thing?
So my notion of what a city represents is that it connects you to the heart of where things are happening. In the city the arts and culture scene feels like an invitation, whether you’re an audience member or a creator. Without it, the city is just a mass of buildings, a hazy mixture of restaurants and monuments like the Sky Tower.
JEREMY HANSEN Why do you think that ecosystem, as you describe it, exists in the central city?
NATHAN JOE There’s a lot of community power there. You have spaces like Basement and Q Theatre right next to each other, creating the closest thing we have to a little theatre precinct. And then around the corner you have larger-scale spaces like The Civic and the Aotea Centre. It’s an arts precinct, but we never call it that! It’s a place where audiences across a broad spectrum of ages and demographics engage with mostly New Zealand-focused stories year-round.
JEREMY HANSEN How did central Auckland feel to you when you first moved into it?
NATHAN JOE As a kid from Christchurch, central Auckland felt quite big and intimidating and fast. People take their time in Christchurch. Aucklanders are always on their way somewhere, which means the moments where things do slow down in the city are quite beautiful: activations in Aotea Square, markets outside the Ellen Melville Centre or in Britomart, that kind of thing. The library slows everyone down a little bit – it’s a beautiful civic space that anyone can access, and one of my favourite spaces to chill out.
JEREMY HANSEN It’s interesting that despite this being unlike the place you grew up, you feel at home here.
NATHAN JOE By living in the city you become the city, to some extent. In Christchurch my relationship to the city was always as a visitor. I’d have to take a bus in and go home at the end of the day. I think the city always offered more potential and possibilities as a queer person and more opportunities for risk, for change and excitement. There’s something about being in the suburbs that doesn’t offer the notion that anything could happen. In the central city, you can walk out into the street and there can be an activation bringing things to life, or there can be a lot of chaotic people, or you can walk down the road and go to the theatre. Growing up, that’s not something I could ever do.
JEREMY HANSEN Are you saying the city offered you possibilities of reinvention?
NATHAN JOE Reinvention, and choices. You can’t really reinvent yourself unless you have options. When your options are really limited in, say, a suburban environment, you’re the same person day in, day out. Whereas, in the city, there’s the hope that, by going to a new thing right around the corner at the gallery or in the theatre or finding the right book at Unity Books, you can change somehow. There’s this beautiful poem by Rilke, ‘Archaic Torso of Apollo’. The poem focuses on this torso, this statue, and the last line is, “You must change your life”. I think about that all the time, that the ending of a piece of art isn’t the end of the story: it’s you taking that into your world and changing as a result of that encounter. The city offers the potential for that every day. It doesn’t mean you’ll change every day, but you’ll be offered the potential or option to change. I think that’s quite a beautiful sentiment. I’ve been changed by the city many times.
JEREMY HANSEN Could you describe how you’ve been changed?
NATHAN JOE This is a crude example, but I remember seeing some early Tom Sainsbury theatre shows back at The Basement, and they changed me because they made me think, “Wow, you’re allowed to behave like this on stage? You’re allowed to write something like this?” I began to see theatre as not this sacred thing, but something that could be irreverent and naughty and full of potential and punk.
JEREMY HANSEN That’s how the city is changing you. How have you noticed the city changing?
NATHAN JOE The city’s arts and culture feels genuinely more diverse and multicultural. It’s a broad statement, but I don’t think it can be dismissed.
JEREMY HANSEN In recent years there’s also been this narrative of the city being slightly hollowed-out and a bit dangerous. Does your experience reflect that?
NATHAN JOE I feel like I notice the danger more in the news than I do in reality. It’s more like something the news is extrapolating or highlighting versus a lived experience. I don’t find it dangerous or that it’s changed in that way. It’s the same general vibe. But in terms of the hollowed-out feeling, I think there was something true to that post-Covid, but it’s picked up a lot. It also depends on where you’re looking – sometimes Queen Street seems a bit dead, but most weekdays you can go down to a little tucked-away Asian restaurant and there’s all sorts of people in it. The streets might not be bustling, but there are nooks and crannies and spaces in which, if you know where to engage, there is life there.
JEREMY HANSEN You’ve worked for Auckland Pride for the past couple of years. And you mentioned before how Auckland’s central city allowed or facilitated the development of your queer identity. Can you talk about the role of the central city in terms of programming for Pride and how your role in Pride plays out in terms of a relationship to the central city?
NATHAN JOE In a utopian way of thinking, you’re trying to build the city or the environment that you think you deserve to some extent, or you think the people want. I love the notion of putting on something that’s not ordinarily in the city and changing the narrative of what people thought the city could be or is limited to.
JEREMY HANSEN What are the downsides of living in the city for you? What are the frustrations?
NATHAN JOE All the construction and stuff going on. Sometimes I’ll wake up and be like, “Oh my God, I’m not ready”. Because of that, it sometimes feels like the story the city is telling is the story of it being in limbo. I’m also baffled by – what’s it called? – SkyWorld? [the old IMAX theatre complex and food court on Queen Street that once opened onto Aotea Square and is now mostly closed]. It’s a complete waste, and it was a community of business owners, a community of entrepreneurs, a community of moviegoers and arcade game players that made it quite a lively place. Now it takes up so much space but it does nothing. So that’s something I don’t really enjoy: buildings or infrastructure that take up a lot of space but aren’t functional. I’d also like great public transport. I don’t have a car and nobody I know owns one, but I think getting into the city on public transport feels like too much of a hurdle for people in the suburbs who do drive. Better public transport would make the central city more inviting and even better to live in. At the moment, sometimes even getting to Karangahape Road from downtown can feel like a mission.
BUILDING A BETTER CITY
NATHAN JOE’S SUGGESTIONS
1. The arts are crucial: support venues and creatives to keep the central city’s arts infrastructure thriving, because it is a key reason for thousands.
2. Try to build the central city environment you think you deserve.
3. Focus on reinvigorating dead sites like SkyWorld and the St James Theatre to bring new layers of amenity and attraction.
